Featured voices: Luciana Bohne • Eric Schechter • Brad Holhut • John Steppling • Peter Pavimentov • Che Guevera
Patrice Greanville (Mod)
My friend and comrade Luciana Bohne just replied to my query for her opinion on this rising wave of people of some prominence in leftist cicles recommending a vote for the Democrats in this election. I presented a couple of examples on this page, one by Andrew Levine, the other by Paul Street, both writing on Counterpunch, a publication that needs to be handled with caution. This is what Luciana said, upon reading a passage from Street's piece (What Debate? Some Strategic Electoral Considerations)—PG
Luciana Bohne
"Dear Patrice: that's the standard left liberal recommendation: hold [the] nose and vote Democrat. Decades of this crap. My view is that this tribe has a long history--way back to the second international. They are liberal at home and imperialists abroad--even if they are unconscious of how they do support it. Long ago they were called "social chauvinists" by Lenin--and "opportunists," because once they got what made them content (abortion, civil rights, some welfare, etc) they became uncritical--and actually reactionaries. It's the social reformer's plague, Patrice. Their idea (synthesized) used to be "the movement is everything; the goal nothing." In other words, move for civil rights, general rights, even war if it involves them personally (like the draft), but never for actual revolution of the capitalist system. When push comes to shove, liberals of this sort side with the fascism. Notice now that a vote for the Dems means voting for candidates coming out of [the] CIA and military industrial complex..."
Alright, Patrice, I’ll bite. This is what I wrote to Paul on his page.
“P Louis Street look, I’ve already seen a few knee jerk reactions to this piece. Reactions that are clearly not seeing the qualitative change we are experiencing under the rule of 45’s regime.
Folks are falling back on what seemed, and was, in my view, correct before, that voting the lesser of two evils is still evil and that is what got us here in the first place. Therefore, don’t vote for either cuz it only encourages the bastards. (No offense to bastards).
But, perhaps, we’ve finally seen enough of the quantitative changes over time... and our previous (Marxist) analysis no longer holds true. Perhaps we’ve now gotten that qualitative change... and the new thing we are analyzing requires fresh eyes and a freshly cleaned slate on which to perform the now needed new calculus.
Levine’s article was crap. Basically saying vote Dems cuz they suck less and then hold their feet to the fire - which is nonsense because there is no (legal) mechanism to hold these servants to capital accountable.
Your piece is entirely different yet I’ve already seen a few folks try to lump them together as if you are both making the same argument, for the same reasons and expecting the same outcomes.
I’ve had a glass of wine or so... but I’m thinking this cycle isn’t the same as the last one... that we’ve been witnessing spirals rather than circles... and perhaps folks, especially Marxists, might revisit the voting question given the very real, new, objective conditions we find ourselves in.
I’ve not thought too much about all this til today... but that’s what I got for now.
Ya’ll chew on that and I’ll get some more wine and see what develops here????????✊”
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Addendum: It's class. It's not the president. Just to be clear. Classes haven't altered. Not really. A managerial class has grown. But this is still government in the interests of the ruling class. Nothing has changed about that.
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Street has always been a crypto imperialist. Always. Now I write for Counterpunch so I take some issue with that handle with caution notion. There are a dozen really really good writers at CP.
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Street though, while once upon a time more reliable on domestic issues, especially in and around Chicago, as I recall anyway, is today increasingly a left anti communist and as for imperialism...if he can't see that Hillary was as likely to start WW3 as Trump, then something is seriously wrong. He is also just pretty arrogant.
It's hard to tell who is more destructive, Hillary or Trump. Hillary certainly was campaigning for more war, even nuclear war. Trump was dragging his feet on the matter, but he's being pushed into it by the press and the Deep State.
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On the other hand, the Democrats have only been killing the ecosystem slowly; Trump is in a hurry to kill it as fast as possible.
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Nuclear war could kill half of the human population of the planet within a few minutes, and the other half with aftereffects within 2 or 3 years -- if nuclear war ever happens. Ecocide looks likely to kill the whole planet within the next 3 decades, and it IS happening.
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So I don't know which is moving us more toward extinction: Democrats or Republicans. I'd call that a tie, more or less.
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But the tie is broken on other issues, smaller than extinction. Republicans are determined to be cruel to women, gays, Muslims, poor people, everyone they can. Democrats are merely indifferent to those identity groups (while claiming to be supportive, of course). So while we wait for annihilation (or try to work against it), Republicans will try to make the intervening time a hell on earth.
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In any case, voting for either of those parties (or anyone else, or not voting) certainly won't fix things.
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1. Vote Democrat or Republican.
2. Vote Green or Socialist.
3. Don't vote.
NONE of these options will solve the huge problems that our society is facing (war, poverty, ecocide, etc). I've heard some people claim otherwise, but I haven't found their arguments convincing at all. So, in broad terms, ELECTIONS ARE USELESS AND IRRELEVANT.I do have some hope for the future, but IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ELECTIONS. It is based entirely on other communications -- writing and handing out leaflets, or publishing something like the Greanville Post. We have to hope that awareness will spread, and that a large enough portion of the working class will be awakened so that we can have a revolution. (On the other hand, election day might be a particularly good day for handing out leaflets.)
Now, having said that elections are useless and irrelevant, I will now take that back, but only in a VERY MINOR way. I think elections have some use, though it is far outweighed by the leaflets, publications, etc. Here it is:If you judge that one of the money parties is working to destroy the world faster, then vote for the slower one; that gives us more time to overthrow both money parties. Or, if you judge that one of the money parties is more cruel, vote for the other one. That doesn't solve the world's problems, but we still have to live in this world while we spread awareness.On the other hand, if the two money parties seem equally evil to you, then vote for some third party, e.g., the Greens. That third party won't win, but maybe they'll get enough votes that a few more people will hear about them and their ideas. That's one more method for spreading awareness.
Eric's arguments, as usual, are thought-provoking, to say the least. While it's hard to dispute his utilitarian logic in this case, my problem is that all political situations are dialectical, dynamic, and in that sense, Eric's "categorical margin of benefit" to call it that, assigned to the Democrats as exponents of the "lesser evil", could actually dissolve faster by a strong vote of confidence, since they could and probably will read that endorsement as a shield for a faster process of delivery of the common interest to the plutocracy. If so, we would shortly find ourselves at the same place as before, with the imagined advantages of a "kinder" corporatist rule virtually evporated before our eyes. Let us not forget who te Democrats are in bed with now, from the CIA to tge FBI and the Pentagon, besides teh customary Neocon zionists and Wall Street...nor that it is they, in the main, who have pursued the McCarthyite Russiagate hoax and the criminalisation of free speech using the "Fake News/Russian meddling in our democracy" psyops.
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Bottom line, then, at best, by backing the Dems we would have wasted some precious time. Thus except for voting Green or similar options, no one should vote duopoly again, ever. As part of the pushback against this corporate fascist mess, the duopoly must be deligitimated as quickly as possible. Voting Lesser Evil is not going to help that at all.
Peter Pavimentov
The problem as I see it, is personality politics which are directly an outcome from identity politics, i.e. fault is ascribed for the present state of chaotic affairs onto a few people and a property-controlling tribe. Granted they are the dregs of society, but then dirty foam always rises to the top in human cohabitation under old fashioned systems like feudalism and capitalism. Trump is not the problem by himself; the whole society is, as clearly and succinctly laid out by Street in his article on this website. Blaming this or that politician does not solve the real underlying disease, namely the utter unreality of a pyramidal form of society, whereby the base supports the rest. Being fearful is advisable because should power devolve onto the other party then the status quo of all the delusion and exploitation will continue. Voting will be no solution, not even for creating a temporary one. What is needed is a total inversion of the deeply harming qualities of this chattel ‘civilization’. Everyone is bound, from men to women to children and what needs per force to change is the way people perceive their environment and relationship to each other. Eisenbud is correct in her comments that the Judeo-Christian principles have distorted human perception so that deep violence and rape of humans and earth are rights given by a (male) God. The inviolate paternalism of Judaism has imbued all of Christianity (and Islam) with the rights to oppress the less powerful and it is in fact what Marx and Engels battled against. Once the fallibility of humans is realized (the instinctual wisdom of wild animals would be a very good example), maybe then a more just and safe societal structure can be contemplated. Until then the best one can do is to struggle each according to her/his demands, even if it is only scratching at the iron pilons that support this structure as sooner rather than later the simple need to survive will bring it down.
Thanks for the discussion, that is just about how I had it figured despite my affection for a lot of what Paul Street has written. It is such a disgusting state of affairs with the current political horrorscape, but I am equally horrified by the entirety of the U.S. political class. That said I still wouldn't mind the outcome as much should Herr Trump get a little pushback and disappointment, not that it would be any solution. All my energy goes to the Green Party while looking for a larger alliance that seems to be there but just can't wake up. The Greens or organized with structure in almost all states and could easily get on the ballots in all 50; if numb nut Bernie would team with Jill I think there would be a very good chance they could take the election in 2020. There is a lot of discontent with both parties as evidenced in 2015 with the Sanders phenomenon and the revulsion directed at both parties. That would be the most direct path to peacefully and legally establishing new priorities at the national level. Alas, Bernie seems to be at heart a ^@? worthless piece of Democrat shit.
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Thanks for the discussion, that is just about how I had it figured despite my affection for a lot of what Paul Street has written. It is such a disgusting state of affairs with the current political horrorscape, but I am equally horrified by the entirety of the U.S. political class. That said I still wouldn’t mind the outcome as much should Herr Trump get a little pushback and disappointment, not that it would be any solution. All my energy goes to the Green Party while looking for a larger alliance that seems to be there but just can’t wake… Read more »
I’ve proposed an innovative solution TGP doesn’t seem interested in: choke back our vomit and vote for Democrats (because Republicans’ war on climate is simply too dangerous) and then focus all our energies on a movement “ratting out” Dems for their electoral extortion–leaving us no choice but to vote Democrat while themselves offering NOTHING of significance to climate justice voters. The movement–which would have no place for civility–would organize to give party bosses like Chuck Schumer the Scott Pruitt treatment when they tried to dine in public and would blame Democrats for refusing to give us a system like ranked-choice… Read more »