With Gary Corseri and Victor Postnikov
CYCLE One, June and July, 2013
Part One
Gary
Corseri: Hello Victor. …I believe it is about 1 month since our last electronic exchanges. Much has happened!
Referring to your note about the Russian/American anthology of poetry that looms ahead for you… and, especially, your comment that “the poets of both cultures should be conversing with one another,” and certainly not forgetting your comment that you would be “delighted” if we were to work on such a project together (as I would be), I want to run a certain idea past you now.
In the past couple of weeks, tensions between the US and Russia have been much in the news here–first, concerning divergent approaches and alliances regarding Syria, the G-8 meeting, etc. Following that, even more news of tensions relating to the spying case of Edward Snowden, statements made by Obama and Kerry here and Putin and Lavrov there.
Viktor
Postnikov: Yes, I follow the latest news with zest, and I am worried about the growing tension between the US and Russia. At the same time, I’m well aware that the state surveillance never seized on both sides of the Atlantic. A lot of spies remained from the Cold War period. I have always felt disgust towards all state spies. Of course, I don’t consider Snowden a “state spy”! He is an anti-state spy!
C: I, too, follow events “with zest”! I have had trouble for several decades (!) accepting the idea that politics and the Arts are separable! In fact, why shouldn’t the Arts be informed by interesting, provocative thought in the sciences, technologies, religion, spirituality, etc.? Is this not a hodge-podge universe with all kinds of interwoven themes that artists–and other thinkers–are trying to interpret in order to bring the Whole—at least our little part of it– together?
And, should we not say, that Artists are also “spies”–looking at reality, observing life and imagining? But, unlike the State’s spies, opening up their world of observations and imagination to others?
P: I realize that now is not the best time for poetics, as people around the globe are desperate to survive. And war is raging! And the earth suffers! But, maybe, it is because of this, that poetry is so badly needed! As an outcry against all the injustice of the world. This has always been the poets’ stand, in all times, right? Blok, before his death in 1921, had expressed this in his brilliant short essays (“On Poets’ Destination”, “Intelligencia and Revolution”, “On Humanism,” and others). I wish you could read them. They are still valid.
C: I look forward to reading Blok’s essays. … Perhaps they can be incorporated into this dialogic piece between us?
P: The cementing base for arts and politics—to my mind—is the environment, which is crucial for both. (There can’t be art or politics on a deserted earth!) And you’ll be surprised to learn how radical I am about this!. (Read e.g. my essay on “Succession” which I attach.)
C: I certainly see your point on Environmental issues! I think we must raise that in our first chapter (which is basically a dialogue-chapter where we are setting up the rest of the book, establishing our framework)… but I think we get more heavily into it after we’ve addressed politics and the arts).
I am not ignorant about the ravages humans have made on our precious Earth and our global inheritance. We must deal with these matters—inevitably. About such environmental matters, I will mostly be deferring to you—certainly in terms of your scientific background.
As artists, following in the tradition of Whitman, Blok, Jeffers, etc., we demand and command the right to address political issues also! That should be a central theme of the book/project.
France’s Clemenceau once said that “war is too important to be left to the generals.”
He was right! And now artists must declare: “Politics is too important to be left to politicians!”
So… I think that is the first battle. To establish our “right” to speak about these matters at this time of critical global crisis!
What say you?
P: Yes! The book can be built in the form of a dialogue between you and me…, Russian and American cultures at large, as both now fit into the modern world. And, what is even more important: how they fit into the future!
C: I wrote you previously about my doing a couple of “Poets Talk” articles with my friend, the American working-class poet, Charles Orloski. I also wrote a collaborative piece with writer Janis Schmidt who had lived on a Native American (“Indian”) “reservation” (open-air prison!) for years. I suggested that it would be very interesting if you and I were to write such an article, bringing politics and the arts together—recognizing the crucial need for artists around the world to be connected, and, politically, as well as artistically, involved in creating a new, humane world. Does such a venture still appeal to you?
P: Absolutely! Creativity means asserting life and defying death. I’m impatient to further my writing. I’ve spent too much time for science! Now, at 62, I feel liberated!
C: At 67, so do I! Now, there are some serious issues to consider first: How open, frank, straight-forward can we be in discussing political matters? (I feel like America is becoming far more dangerous to outspoken critics of the System here… but I think matters may be even worse where you are!) So, my first concern would be for your safety and welfare! Do you think you could engage in such an exchange of opinions–criticizing the current state of politics and the arts in the Western world, including Russia and the US in particular?
P: It’s hard to tell where the threat is greater. I don’t feel safe here at all. (The threat comes not so much from the government, I presume, but from plain criminals!). The irony is that I’m writing critically on both worlds. No wonder I’m being watched! Probably we must seek some independent edition, say, in the UK. Or, in good tradition, do Samizdat.
C: It feels like we are back in the age of Samizdat! We must walk a tightrope–speaking out, but being circumspect, too!
P: Yes! Don’t you have an expression: “Nothing ventured, nothing gained?”
C: My mother taught me that when I was a kid!. … Life means taking risks! Wisdom and experience mean calculated risks!
P: There are, at least, two books that loom ahead for me. 1) an Anthology of Russian/American poetry; and, 2) “Russian Whitman” (an account of my father’s life as a scientist “under the Sickle and Hammer.”) Why Whitman? Because he was my father’s favorite American poet!
In the first book, the poets of both cultures should be conversing with one another! The second book, based on my father’s memoirs and my personal communication with him, should portray the events he witnessed—especially from his scientific viewpoint–, starting from the early 1920-s till his death in 1990 (The Soviet Union died the next year). I’m sure this could interest many, many people. (Unfortunately, today, history is shamelessly distorted for political reasons, both in Russia and abroad).
I would be delighted if we could work on these projects!
Part Two
Corseri: Hello Victor. …I’m excited to have your (mostly) positive response to my query.
I think, in fact, that this initial exchange of views on this matter of politics and the arts–with the immediate tie-in to current events–would form the basis of our first article.
I can conceive of several articles addressing current events and the role of artists in bringing a different consciousness–and more clarity–to those events. We would just spin off each other. In a book, we might start with my Jeffers’ essay, and the first short exchanges between us concerning him (and include your Dissident Voice poem then. In a sense, one might say that Robinson Jeffers introduced us, since it was your favorable response to my essay about him that began our correspondence.)
Like you, I think there is a great need for such a book! (And, like you, I think much of what is being offered now–in the contemporary poetry “scene” is very lacking in scope and quality. It is too “precious”—too self-contained, self-limited, selfish!)
I could see a collaborative book-project developing organically–chapter by chapter. We have the grand scheme in our heads from the beginning–where we want to go, what our intentions are (as we are stating here and below), but we are open to changes as the work develops. I think there is great potential in such a project! It could keep us busy for a year or more and add something significant to the intellectual/artistic/political conversation of these times! What do you think of such a scheme for a book?
Postnikov: I wonder if we could compile a concise collection of articles/essays of some prominent Russian/US authors that spoke of a liaison of art, politics and environment? For example, it could be Blok, Snyder, Jeffers, Lowenfels, etc. We could make a contribution, too.
C: Yes! That’s just what I’m thinking about!
P: There are four dangers that I’ve discerned in other collections which I want to avoid:
1) being too academic; 2) containing almost exclusively anglo-american authors; 3) the exclusion of politics; 4) being too voluminous.
C: Your reservations/cautions match my own! I also want to avoid being “too academic.” (Some academic underpinning would be okay… but not too much.) We want a book with broad appeal—and we want to get out of the often exclusionary “anglo-american” bandwidth! We definitely want to deal with politics! I agree with Aristotle that “man is a political animal!” (Women, too, of course!) It just means, we play power games, figure out our place in the hierarchy. … And, btw, if I start getting too “voluminous,” you can bop me on the head! And I’ll do the same to you!
P: Okay! It’s a deal!
Another take could be an anthology of Russian/US political verse. I wonder if such an anthology has ever been tried? I have only one small book that meets such criteria: Poets of Today, a New American Anthology, edited by Walter Lowenfels (Seven Seas Publishers, Berlin, 1966). As for the latest anthology of Modern American Poetry that I saw recently (in Russian translation, published in Moscow by OGI), edited by April Linder (2007), and a parallel Modern Russian Poetry published by Dalkey Archive, in the framework of a joint project—I can’t say anything very positive. The deficiency of the book (not even mentioning the awkward and heavy edition) is the absence of a unified idea!
C: I believe I saw, and probably read some of, the Lowefels anthology back in the mid-60s. The 60s were, in fact, a “golden age” for American political poetry—the “Beat,” poets, black and female poets, etc. From the mid-50s to mid-70s was an exciting period.
I haven’t seen the Linder-edited modern anthology that you mention, but I have seen others of that type and I also believe they are lacking in a “unified idea.” (That is something we can hope to remedy!) I think that’s what we’re working towards: a unified idea that addresses environmental, political and artistic concerns. A global vision for this new millennium!
P: In 10 days I’m leaving for Crimea to stay there for about a month, where access to the Internet is sporadic. Therefore, if we could agree on some plans/authors/ideas, I would take some with me to work with.
C: I’ll send you some plans/authors/ideas under separate cover. Meantime, let’s end this first cycle with you recent poem that you posted at Dissident Voice. Then we can take up our dialogue after your return. Let’s show folks what your poetic side is all about, since we’re basically introducing ourselves now. Then, in our next conversation, we’ll talk more specifically about “anarchy” (which idea needs much clarification, btw), Robinson Jeffers and an aesthetics of environmentalism, etc. So, how about your poem now?
P: Okay… if you twist my arm!… Here it is:
Оde to Anarchy
By Vik Postnikov
When I was young I heard it in the songs of Bob Dylan- –
his voice and guitar
had the power to destroy the gray walls of authorities,
The walls that were meant to encapsulate my soul.
I saw it in the films and read between the lines –
of the books that were written
by many recalcitrant minds; they passed to me
this twig of rebellion from past generations.
I heard it in the cries of newly-born babies –
sucking ferociously their milk,
they gazed upon this world with an equal look,
they demanded what was assigned to them.
I heard it in the laughs of young boys and girls –
yearning for the impossible,
they had a special taste for adventure,
they were the captains of their fate.
I heard it in the clashes of revolutions and mutinies –
new and old alike;
they smashed the rotten order,
and hailed a new dawn.
But most of all, I heard it in the heave of the sea –
in the sound of hissing waves,
as they kept rolling and rolling, and rolling,
unaware of Man’s presence.
Gary Corseri has taught at universities in the US and Japan, and in US public schools and prisons. His books include collections of poetry, two novels and a literary anthology (edited). His dramas have been performed on Atlanta-PBS and elsewhere. He has performed his original work at the Carter Presidential Library and Museum. His prose and poems have appeared at hundreds of periodicals and websites worldwide.
Victor Ivanovich Postnikov is a poet-translator, writer, and (left) biocentrist. A former research scientist and educator, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, he gave up his scientific career in favor of radical ecology and poetry. He has been an editor of the online journal Dandelion Times (in Russian), and his original poetry (in English and Russian) has appeared at Dissident Voice and elsewhere.
Beginning at the end, Viktor’s poem, “Ode to Anarchy,” the title naturally made me recall Turgenev’s “Fathers & Sons,” especially when the author discusses the “new & old alike.” Turegnev’s hero, anarchist, the good Dr. Bazarov heard the ‘cries of newborns,” and worked to help peasant suffering. Later of course, Revolution came, “they smashed the new order, and hailed a new dawn.” As you know, my secular bible of revolution is Orwell’s “Animal Farm,” which of course tells of revolution and victory against tyrant, Farmer Jones. You know the “rest of the story, Gary, “Napoleon the pig” too-over, and to… Read more »